Berrys bullets reloading data

Berrys bullets reloading data DEFAULT

Thread: Berrys load data

  • 04-25-2014, 02:16 PM#1

    ncfyrfyter is offline
    Boolit Mold

    Berrys load data

    Can you use load data for Berry's bullets to load cast boolits, or do I need to reduce it? If so, how much? I found data on Hodgedons website for 40 S&W, 180 gr using Longshot starting at 6.3 gr. I also found a post in a thread here, on 40 S&W loads, that said they used 6.5 gr of Longshot. Still trying to get a grasp of how to use data for plated or j-bullets to determine a safe starting load for cast boolits. The place where I bought the cast boolits told me that I could use data for j-bullets if I reduced them by 10%???


  • 04-25-2014, 02:42 PM#2

    shooterbob is offline
    Boolit Buddy

    Yes Berrys and cast go hand in hand. Most load books have a cast section though. When loading plated you want to go with mid range jacketed data. Should be the same with cast. I'll see what mine says for your boolit.


  • 04-25-2014, 02:47 PM#3

    I personally like 8.0gr of Longshot for 180gr plated bullets. 6.5 shoots fine but leaves the cases quite sooty and the gun dirty. But its a good place to start and work up until you get the function, accuracy, and/or velocity you want


  • 04-25-2014, 02:57 PM#4

    shooterbob is offline
    Boolit Buddy

    I was suprised to see Hodgdons berrys load at higher speed and pressure than an xtp. In my experience its not a good idea to drive them that fast. All of my cast data is around 8-900. But there's always an exception it seems.


  • 04-25-2014, 03:02 PM#5

    I think the XTP bullets were designed around a certain velocity range which may be why the load data is that way. Plated bullets, while not as tough as FMJ, can still be driven pretty fast.


  • 04-25-2014, 05:05 PM#6

    Berry's says to use cast data for their bullets.

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  • 04-25-2014, 05:41 PM#7

    Years since I loaded these.
    At the time I used midrange load for jacketed bullets and left it there.

    Shiloh

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  • 04-25-2014, 07:40 PM#8

    ncfyrfyter is offline
    Boolit Mold

    Thanks again guys! I do try searching for answers before I ask, but sometimes just can't find them all.


  • 04-25-2014, 08:49 PM#9

    Just ask.
    Lots of experienced casters and loaders here. Ask away.

    Shiloh

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    "A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves."
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  • 04-25-2014, 10:30 PM#10

    62chevy is offline
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    X-Treme Bullets say this about their plated bullets.

    Load Info:
    - Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We do not recommend velocities over 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and only a light taper crimp.
    Any velocities over 1200 FPS we recommend either our Heavy Plate Concave Base or Hollow Point products for superior accuracy. We do not recommend velocities over 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and only a light taper crimp.
    http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-...nfo-s/1952.htm

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  • 04-26-2014, 10:10 AM#11


  • 04-26-2014, 11:40 AM#12

    This thread seems opposite of normal "what's a load for plated bullets?" questions. If you want cast lead bullet load data, I'd suggest l'd suggest Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. If you want data for plated bullets, go with the info from the manufacturer's websites. No good substitute for maker's suggestions and a reloading manual. Extrapolating load data for one type bullet to another type bullet is better left until more experience is gained...

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  • 04-26-2014, 09:20 PM#13


  • 04-27-2014, 09:20 AM#14

    steve4102 is offline
    Boolit Buddy
    QuoteOriginally Posted by jonpView Post


    They do?

    From Berry's Bullets: Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.
    http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-H...d_Bullets.aspx

    Best place to start when trying some bullets/boolits is the manu's own site.

    Hey Jon, I see you have found the FAQ section over at Berry's Bullets. They have some confusing info on this page.

    You quoted from line 3, How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets?

    Scroll down to the bottom and click on, Load Data for Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets
    It's says this.

    We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data.

    A tad confusing ain't it?

    Not only do they say to use Lead data they also say to "Start" with mid-range Jacketed data. Whereas your quote they say to "Use" mid-range jacketed data.

    Cool ain't it?

  • 04-27-2014, 09:34 AM#15

    62chevy is offline
    Boolit Master


    http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q21-c1-...d_Bullets.aspx

    Currently published load data is limited to some calibers by Accurate, Western Powders and Hodgdon. We are working with these companies to get data published for all of our bullets.

    We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data. Make sure data is below 1250fps unless you are using a Thick-Plated bullet that we list a higher max velocity for like the 9mm 124gr HBRN-TP that can be shot to 1500fps in open class guns like a .38 Super. Keep in mind that since our plated bullet has the same pressure curve as a hard cast bullet, the published cast data will be very close to what you will get with our plated bullets. If you use Jacketed data with our plated bullets you can get from 5% - 8% increase in velocity using that data.

    Other than the data from Western and Accurate for the 9mm, .40S&W and Hodgdon .40S&W there is no printed data available.
    Seems like Berry's and X-Treme agree on load data for plated bullets.

    Lead bullets Matter

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  • 04-27-2014, 10:37 AM#16


  • 04-27-2014, 11:24 AM#17

    When I first found plated bullets some years ago, I just started with cast lead load levels. I didn't give it much thought as the plated bullets are soft, and the plating is relatively soft, and I had no need to run them faster than my lead bullets. No big deal really, no harm will come from loading them "too low", and as is well known, keep them under 1250 fps....

    Common sense.

    My Anchor is holding fast!


  • 04-27-2014, 08:20 PM#18

    MBuechle is offline
    Boolit Man

    To the OP, I worked up Longshot with cast Mihec 190gr. WFN in my XD-40. 7gr. of Longshot yielded 1096 fps. with an ES of 8 and an SD of 4.4 for ten shots. This is a max as interpolated between 180 & 200 gr. bullets from Hodgdon's data. The starting loads were sooty with an SD of about 25. As the charge weight went up, the loads cleaned up and the SD went down. This powder likes to be pushed hard and thus I would not recommend for light plinking loads or light bullets. It's pretty awesome with heavy boollits though.


  • 04-29-2014, 09:43 AM#19

    ncfyrfyter is offline
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    QuoteOriginally Posted by MBuechleView Post

    To the OP, I worked up Longshot with cast Mihec 190gr. WFN in my XD-40. 7gr. of Longshot yielded 1096 fps. with an ES of 8 and an SD of 4.4 for ten shots. This is a max as interpolated between 180 & 200 gr. bullets from Hodgdon's data. The starting loads were sooty with an SD of about 25. As the charge weight went up, the loads cleaned up and the SD went down. This powder likes to be pushed hard and thus I would not recommend for light plinking loads or light bullets. It's pretty awesome with heavy boollits though.

    Thanks! I think I might just wait until some more suitable "plinking" powders are available before I get into this. I appreciate everyone's input!!!

  • Sours: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/

     

    Old07-29-2020, 12:49 PM
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    DefaultCopper plated bullet load data?

    Greetings!

    I just managed to track down a box of Xtreme copper plated bullets for my 9mm. In looking at the reviews on the Xtreme bullets' website, the reviews for their load data "book" were less than encouraging. My only other experience with loading plated bullets was with Speer's TMJ bullets for CMP EIC matches.

    My question: would it be safe to use the load data from the Speer load sheets for a comparable Xtreme branded bullet?

    As always, thanks in advance for your help!

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    Old07-29-2020, 12:53 PM

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    Yes.


    Plated bullets can use any data for lead or fmj of the same weight, COL will vary depending on profile.

    Start low work up.

     

    Old07-29-2020, 01:58 PM

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    Please check the "Bullet/Load Info" section of the X-Treme Bullets website. It relates to the matter of velocity.

    Good luck!

    JPJ

     

    Old07-29-2020, 02:25 PM
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    I bought 3700 Xtreme 124hp plated and 4.7 of Vn340 is my accurate load in a 1911. I started low and when the slide started to function properly I added .2 more. OL length is 1.085. A buddy of mine tried some at 4.5 in his Glock and wouldn't lock the slide back on the last shot but 4.7 did. 4.7 of N340 fills the case nicely.

     

    Old07-29-2020, 03:05 PM

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    What bullet did you get-weight & shape? What powders do you have to use?

     

    Old07-29-2020, 07:04 PM
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    Shot lots of Xtreme 9mm bullets and have posted on their site.

    They say to stay at 1250fps or lower with their plated bullets but the 115gr out of a 5" barrel will do 1350 with Unique powder but they do better at 1200fps with full loads if you want accuracy.

    The Speer TMJ has a small flat point that is much better than the 147gr RN style for a 3-3.5" pistol for higher fps and MORE case volume for extra powder.........
    over the minimum room in the little 9mm case with the long 147gr RN bullet, that needs x-fine powder to reach high velocities.

    All plated RN weights worked for me and all ejected if they had enough powder in the case to work the slide's spring.

    Good shooting.

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    Old07-29-2020, 07:42 PM
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    I can confirm that their publication is light (VERY light) on data and powder options, but data from other publications using comparable bullets should be sufficient.

     

    Old07-29-2020, 08:46 PM

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    -PLEASE- take my experience and advice and don’t ever baby any handload with plated bullets. Load them like jacketed bullets and be careful not to overcrimp them as a crimp will cut through the plating.

    Plated bullets offer a lot of resistance in a bore. In a revolver, this can be a problem if you baby them.

    Just don’t approach them like a soft lead bullet.

     

    Old07-29-2020, 09:07 PM
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    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MyDads38View Post

    What bullet did you get-weight & shape? What powders do you have to use?

    Cabela's website showed that the Xtreme 9mm 124JHP was in stock when I made this post. A few hours ago, I received an email that they cancelled the order because the item was out of stock.

    I will now place an order directly with Xtreme for their 9mm 124gr FN. In the long-run it may cost a little bit more, but I will get my bullets. Yesterday, I placed an order for curbside pickup, but after the order was placed, it was cancelled because it wasn't in stock contrary to their website. Today's cancellation was from their central sourcing center.

    The powders that I have to work with include: Bullseye, WW231, Unique, and CFE Pistol.

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    Old07-30-2020, 10:05 AM

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    There is quite a hit of published load data on the Hodgdons site for plated bullets. There are Berrys plated bullets that are described as being HEAVY PLATE that are rated for higher velocities than 1,200 fps. As long as you stay under Xtreme's recommendation of 1,200 you should be just fine with Hodgdons data for similar bullets.

    I have loaded thousands of the Xtreme 9mm bullets. Occasionally they have had FMJ versions and those worked EXTREMELY well (pun intended!)...

    Cheers!

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    Old07-30-2020, 10:39 AM

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    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lrriflemanView Post

    Cabela's website showed that the Xtreme 9mm 124JHP was in stock when I made this post. A few hours ago, I received an email that they cancelled the order because the item was out of stock.

    I will now place an order directly with Xtreme for their 9mm 124gr FN. In the long-run it may cost a little bit more, but I will get my bullets. Yesterday, I placed an order for curbside pickup, but after the order was placed, it was cancelled because it wasn't in stock contrary to their website. Today's cancellation was from their central sourcing center.

    The powders that I have to work with include: Bullseye, WW231, Unique, and CFE Pistol.

    I checked the Xtreme website a few days ago, and surprisingly they had several 9mm bullets in stock. Their price has gone up just a few dollars, where other vendors' prices have doubled in some cases. You will have to pay shipping, so I always buy at least 2,000 to get the best deal. If you buy the 3,000 bulk, makes even better deal.
    I've only been loading plated in 9mm and 40 S&W with TiteGroup powder. The data is from Hodgdons website. You can also find data for W231 there also, Berry's plated bullets are used for the data. I've had good luck using plated bullets, for target/range ammo, any of your powders should work. :-)
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    Old07-30-2020, 10:40 AM
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    The Xtreme 124 plated RN "Ball" type bullet out of my 5" pistolcan get....

    Bullseye starting at 993fps up to 1155fps
    Unique at around 1060 moving up to around 1238fps.

    Bull/w231 at 1150 fps gave a nice, accurate target load but they both
    can be good at only 1025fps if you need an X-Lite load, with a 1.14" OAL.

    Have fun.

     

    Old07-30-2020, 10:55 AM
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    With plated bullets you can use the data given for Cast Lead .
    Lyman and Lee have manuals .

    Accurate Arms has specific data for some plated bullets in their manual and on their reloading site ... might want to check them out .

    Be sure and stay below the maximum fps the mfgr states...plated can't be driven as fast as jacketed and the velocity matters.

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    Old07-30-2020, 12:52 PM

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    I have posted this info so many types, Plated Bullets are not that difficult! There is no mystery

    Bullet/Load Info

    Load Info

    Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp
    Any velocities over 1200 FPS we recommend either our Heavy Plate Concave Base or Hollow Point products for superior accuracy. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp


    FAQ - Berry's Manufacturing


    Where can I find load data for your bullets?
    Load data from any load manual or website can be used. Full-metal jacketed, lead bullet, or plated bullet load data can be used as long as the following standards are adhered to:
    • The data contains the correct grain weight of bullet.
    • Berry's max recommended velocity is not exceeded. (This info is displayed on bullet boxes and product webpages.)
      • Standard Plate Bullets Max Velocity: 1,250 fps.
      • Thick-Plate Bullets (TP) Max Velocity: 1,500 fps.
    • Do not over-crimp the bullet. Crimping so tight that bullet deformation occurs, or plating is separated causing visible exposure of the lead core will cause tumbling, key-holing, and reduced accuracy.
    Load data containing bullet descriptions such as Plated (P,) Berry's Bullet (BERB,) Total Metal Jacket (TMJ,) Copper Plated (CP,) or CPJ (Copper Plated Jacket,) refers to plated bullet data.
    Cartridge Overall Lengths (COL) are found in the load data being used. DO NOT EXCEED SAAMI MAX COL SPECS.
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    Old07-31-2020, 12:39 AM

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    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rule3View Post

    I have posted this info so many types, Plated Bullets are not that difficult! There is no mystery
    Where can I find load data for your bullets?
    Load data from any load manual or website can be used. Full-metal jacketed, lead bullet, or plated bullet load data can be used as long as the following standards are adhered to:

    It may be true that this is posted on their website, but it doesn't mean that it makes sense. Use any load data, FMJ, Lead, or plated -- really?

    If you compare load data for the same weight jacketed & lead bullets with the same powder, you will see that the jacketed bullet will have a higher powder charge to get the same velocity and also will max out pressure at the same or lower velocity as lead. If that's true then how does it make sense to use load data interchangeably for either?

     

    Old07-31-2020, 11:17 AM
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    I treat all "Standard Plated" bullets as a lower class real copper jacket bullet like and XTP or Win/Rem jacket bullet.
    True plated do come with a "Heavy coat" of plating but I have yet to try them.

    All mine have been for my 9mm's , so I don't need a crimp.

    In a 3" I will load a 115 or 124gr down to 945fps but in a 5" my minimum is 1025fps so I don't run into squibs.
    A bullet hole in a target is a GOOD thing!!

    Some pistols really do well with plated bullets........
    I have a lot of test done to finally find a good target load with all the powders that I have tried for my pistols, from Bullseye to imr4227 !

    Of course my chrony was a big help, keeping me out of harms way and
    letting me learn what my powders were doing, in the test.

    However I do think that plated is a great bullet for "Target work" only.
    Stay safe.

     

    Old07-31-2020, 01:44 PM

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    "Technically" Speer Gold Dot bullets are "plated" bullets, Not a jacketed. So does one use "plated" data?

    They use a electro chemical bonding method to put the copper on the lead core.

    Todays "plated" bullets (depending on brand) are not much different than FMJ or TMJ

    The key word in load data is "mid-range" There is a lot of reloading that doesn't make "sense" There is a bit of
    "black magic" involved (Richard Lee) It is not all cut and dry
    If it was, all manuals would have the exact same data.
    Pressure and velocity will vary all over the place . Some powders have a large leeway, others not so much.


    Different COL, different powders, different lead hardness, different brass, different test methods, different temp, humidity, phase of the moon. etc etc.

     

    Old07-31-2020, 01:55 PM

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    MyDads38 - Great info about Extreme Bullets!! I just ordered some and the pricing is fair – unlike most every place else. I have been using Universal powder for my 9mm’s with 115-g Berry’s. Universal fills the cases to the point that I don’t worry too much about setback. Now, if I could just find a brick of SP primers

     

    Old07-31-2020, 07:45 PM

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    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GeoJellyView Post

    I have been using Universal powder for my 9mm’s with 115-g Berry’s. Universal fills the cases to the point that I don’t worry too much about setback.

    I too like Universal for 9mm as it meters really well. Universal likes to have some pressure in order to get complete powder burn so I find that it works best in medium to hot loads.
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    Old07-31-2020, 09:09 PM

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    Never heard of concerns about setback with properly reloaded 9mm. If the expanding doesn't create such an exaggerated bell that the cases won't just drop into a barrel or case gauge a normal taper crimp should be all that is needed.

    Certainly do agree that almost every 9mm load (I am familiar with!) would make any double charge very obvious: there would be powder overflowing the case.

    Plated bullets do differ from lead, but not at the medium velocities that most reloaders use: either pf loads or over MAX loads can make things interesting, though...

    Cheers!

     

    Old07-31-2020, 09:32 PM
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    I also use the Power Factor data in my 9mm loads and with a 115 to 147 grain bullet from.......
    114 up to 157 PF, but I also let this factor settle down with the type of bullets that I am using
    along with the OAL of the bullet in the case along with the type of powder used in my loads.

    I load 9mm coated, plated and factory JHP bullets and they all call for different loadings to be within the pressures for the 9mm case and pistol.

    I just try to load per the pistols spec's and age and what I think will be a safe load for that weapon.

    Good shooting.

     

    Old08-01-2020, 09:35 PM

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    Copper plated bullet load data?Copper plated bullet load data?Copper plated bullet load data?Copper plated bullet load data?Copper plated bullet load data? 

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    I have loaded the Xtreme plated like I would jacketed bullets getting almost the same results except for accuracy. I also try to keep the 124gr sub-sonic. I try to keep my 9mm bullets 120 to 130gr - they seem to work best. I have found that accuracy usually ran raw lead, then poly coated lead and jacketed with plated bringing up the rear but it also depended on the profile of the bullet where flat points or hollow points worked a little better. There wasn't much of a difference but the plated always came in last.

    As others have said, go light with the crimp.

     

    Old08-01-2020, 10:54 PM
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    Some pistols might not do well with plated bullets with the powders used or the fps that they were pushed at.
    Good accuracy is not always at a medium or full loading, but they can work, just that I seem to get good accuracy at just above a starting load and one at around 125PF in a lot of my 9mm pistols.
    Full loads can work, just that you have to use a lot more powder..........
    and I am cheap and like to load more ammo, in place of high fps, for my shooting, if bot are a accurate load.

    I generally don't give out load data but these are low pressure target loads that should be safe in modern weapons in good condition, but use at your own risk.

    This OAL worked best in my 5" 9mm pistol, though I did stretch it to 1.13" OAL to get enough Unique and Blue Dot onto the case for one of my test, for a full load.

    Make sure with light loads that there is a hole in the target or a splash of dirt, before pulling the trigger again !!



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    Awesome Jimbo, thank you. What gun/barrel-length are you using? Any estimates or measurements on muzzle velocity?

    Your loads with (hornady) jacketed bullets would be 1200fps, which, possibly coincidentally is Berry's max suggested velocity. Since these aren't jacketed (just plated), I think we're supposed to assume they make a better seal with the barrel, and pressures and velocities should be higher. If we used (Hornady's) lead loading data, those would be over max loads.

    Also, to anyone reading this using plated bullets, could you let us know exactly how you crimp them? The factory loads I purchased are actually crimped at the base of the bullet to prevent setback (there's a big groove in the middle of the brass), and the mouth is straight. I'm assuming this groove will vanish after the first firing, and my rcbs dies will put a slight roll crimp that will pinch the plated Berry's. Berry's/Rainer's don't have cannilures do they? Anyone have a picture of a handloaded berry/rainer in a 44mag?

    In any event, i'll work up to your loads. There's almost no real loading data for berry's or any plated bullet for that matter. I'm glad you "bit the bullet" and worked up these loads without hurting yourself or your revolver :).

    thanks,
    -edfardos


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    Loads for plated bullets

    RE: Loads for plated bullets

    February 25th, 2013 at 9:34am

    For plated bullets I just use loads suggested for a similar
    weight bullet that is pure lead.
     Not had any issues to date. I load 45ACP mostly. I tend to buy plain lead bullits(sic) more often due to cost but I do use plated Rainier and Berrys at times.
      My old Speer manual has some plated loads listed and I use those
    as a reference at times, but only as a cross check.

    I do chronograph my loads so I know I am where the data in some
    book would indicate a given load may be. I adjust accordingly
    and look for over pressure symptoms.

     Typically I find I can load to higher velocities than I would with non plated but don't do that often as there is no real need. This is for target practice
    not some self defense jacketed round.
     
     All sources I see on the subject pretty much say the same, use lead
    bullet load data. Do not use jacketed load data.
     I do not overly concern myself if a book doesn't list SWC VS the Flat
    Truncated Buillit I have or whatever. I just go by weight and build up
    from the suggested starting point. Having 4 or 5 differ load sources comes in handy. I use these books : old Speer, a new LEE, latest Hornady, Lymans latest plus Hercules/Alliant and WW handout data.
     Cross reference a lot and make my own loads up based on what I see.

     
     
     I loaded for many years without a chrono around. A few years ago I
    went ahead and got one. They are so cheap now there is no real reason not to get one (at least the old school optical kind are). If one has the cash and loads enough, I suggest them as then you know that load x and gun z has y velocity. Load data in the book is ballpark.
     

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    Bullets data berrys reloading

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    Xtreme Bullets Versus Berry's Bullets

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